In this episode, we sit down with the dynamic duo from The Swing Nation, Dan and Lacy, to hear about their incredible journey within the lifestyle. We kick things off with a fun chat about how they first met as a unicorn and a bull.
Dan and Lacy share the story of their relationship’s evolution from casual encounters to a deep, loving connection, all while navigating the complexities of non-monogamy.
We discuss the challenges and triumphs of maintaining an open relationship, including how they dealt with jealousy, set boundaries, and eventually found a balance that works for them.
We also touch on their unexpected rise to fame on TikTok and how their openness about their lifestyle has impacted not just their lives but also the wider community.
This episode is packed with insights on love, communication, and the importance of being true to yourself in any relationship
Transcript:
00:00
so we’re here with swing Nation Dan and Lacy and we’re not golfing today hey guys John and Jackie of openl 101.com and we are here today with Lacy and Dan of Swing Nation they’re the most amazing podcasters in the universe we’re so fortunate to have you guys here with
00:24
us today and we actually they sted our house last night we had an amazing time lots of talking yeah talk Talking how you guys doing good good happy to be here and uh you are here in Houston why we were here for Splash Houston so we actually attend all the splash events um and I usually host the
01:46
pool parties and we just we go and we have a good time yeah I watched one of your pool parties that you hosted where uh Tess of naughty nins had a big banana between her legs and you were doing a ring toss we did do that yeah you ended up bumping the banana quite a bit I did
01:01
I kept hting my head on the banana was slightly awkward but it was test so it okay it’s okay yeah and then the other thing we’re talking about today I mean one of the things we’re talking about is today is international panties day I don’t know if you heard that in early on
01:13
in our blooper roll or Boll stuff but uh it is international panty or underwear it says underwear same difference but panties are underwear so either way yeah yeah well I don’t wear underwear panties I don’t have any on I have underwear on yeah and you yeah you do okay two out of
02:36
four the same page celebrating underwear day I am celebrating underwear day so let’s start off by maybe you guys telling us a little bit about how you met because I think you were a unicorn and I heard you were a bull which I’ve never met a bull in person so uh we had
02:52
a we had a podcast all alongo we talked about definitions terms that swingers use and that’s one of them and a lot of people don’t know what that mean so let’s start with that and okay yeah so I was what you would consider a bowl which generally speaking is just a single male
02:07
in the lifestyle that engages with couples now there are other and we actually were talking about this a little bit last night there’s other terms out there that some people use so some people will say a bull is somebody that’s in the lifestyle that might be there’s some con you know um
02:22
implications that they’re a little maybe more dominant maybe they might be well hung or something like that there’s some kind of idea if if you bring Bull in to play with a couple that that he’s going to kind of come in and service the wife and rock her world so to speak um so
03:38
there are other terms out there we’ve heard the term now Bluefish which is again another single male that will engage with couples but isn’t a bll so he’s just a normal guy he’s not maybe doesn’t have that like dominant kind of personality uh and then we’ve heard the
03:52
term Dragon which was kind of new to us but from what I’ve told that’s a a bisexual male so a male that will come in and play with couples but he’s bisexual so obviously he’d be playing with with both Partners um but I I don’t even know I think people told me I was a
03:06
bull I don’t think I really identifi that way I didn’t know I was a unicorn I was just told that I just thought I just wanted to hook up a coupl and then someone told me what a unicorn was so you guys were both doing this individually Yeah we actually met on SLS so that’s so I messaged him he was in
03:23
town working but I didn’t know at the time and I had never seen him and I didn’t typically message guys because I was a single know I I had a lot of messages um so I kind of could just go through and find but I saw him and I thought he was cute and so I messaged him and I was like how are we the same
04:40
age and we live in the same city we don’t know each other really mhm yeah and then we started chatting and we hit it off I ended up going to his hotel room cuz he was working which is very scary I don’t know why I did that but I did that alone I did it and uh we ended
04:56
up not even hooking up the first time we just talked and had fun and a um but I came back the next night and we did yeah you got to tell a full story why we didn’t hook up the first time well because when he asked me to come to his hotel room I was like I can come but I
04:09
just want to let you know I have plans with a couple earlier that night so I already have had sex with someone so I just wanted to let you know that so I thought I was like being like respectful telling him that and he had done the same thing so it’s okay because I have
04:28
plans with a couple this afternoon too so um sounds like we’ll both be busy about the same time but if you want to come over later in the night that’ll be fine yeah so did I actually told her like we’re not but we’re not going to we’re not going to have sex cuz you know
05:39
I already have done that so I want if we’re going to do it I want to give you the full The Full Experience yeah she she tried really really hard hard and I she got close to getting me to told me no so of course I had to come back the next night to do it for real yeah MH like you
05:58
couldn’t you couldn’t get it up or just he just told me no and so he was sticking to I wasn’t going to go back on that yeah yeah and I love that it made me want him more yeah exactly it worked it worked I came back so forced you to talk get to know each other yeah yeah
05:14
yeah and so when she messaged me on I last I was very hesitant I’m like this is not real like this is you know I’ve been in lifestyle for I don’t know a year or so at this point in time and I’m like single females that are attractive and look like her don’t message you on
05:26
lifestyle dating apps like that’s just not something that ever happen so I’m like this is has got to be a dude trying to catfish me and like just get pictures or something like that but then she talked more and then like I think we got on kick at the time whatever it was
06:37
using she sent me a few pictures and then she sent me on that app you can send like a live picture and I’m like this might be a real girl like this might be real like this this seems real to me and then she showed up in my hotel room and I was like yeah this is real
06:50
this is a real thing yeah so it was supposed to be just like a week of like fun you know he lived 500 miles away we were just going to like hook up for the week and then he was going to leave leave and he did visit my area often so we were like maybe you know this will
06:04
maybe it’ll happen again we didn’t know but we became friends we really we would talk and it was nice to talk to someone else about non monogamy and we could like I could tell him about my experiences so if I was going to be with a couple I could like come back and be
06:19
like oh my God guess what I did we kind of like were able to tell our deest darkest Secrets without being like judged and what ended up happening is we ended up falling for each other so then we had to figure out okay how do we make this work we’re 500 miles apart we’re
07:35
both in the lifestyle we both like to have a lot of sex like how does this work and we somehow figured it out I don’t know how but we did and now here we are we’re ups and downs there was a lot lot up and downs yeah were there how long you been married now uh four years
07:50
and how long youve been together eight years eight years wow that’s great and what changes do you see being a married couple as opposed to when you were a bull and a unicorn or are there we just had to I had never been a swinger with like emotions so before I would just
07:08
come in meet a couple and then I lefted and they had to deal with like making sure their partner was okay I didn’t have to deal with that I just got to go home which is wonderful on one hand but on the other sometimes I felt lonely because not that I really wanted to be
07:25
in a relationship but it would have been nice to have someone to be like oh what did you think about that and I just I didn’t really have that so I would be the one driving away alone um so it was just kind of figuring out how to swing with emotions which I didn’t think would
08:41
be hard because I was participating and stuff like that but it was just different I don’t I don’t know how to describe it yeah it took it took us a while to kind of figure because when we first came together we were like oh we’re both swingers we’re already [ __ ] other people you know we live
08:56
500 miles apart like okay when we’re not together you do your thing I’ll do my thing we together we’ll do things together you know we were falling in love but then we were still like we weren’t you know we were kind of dating but not really dating and so like there
08:13
was all those emotions and like oh do you like you know do you like her more than you like me or are you are you going to break up with me to go be with this guy that you’re [ __ ] every weekend you know so there was a lot of that we just we just didn’t know what to
08:23
do with those emotions we had never been in the situation we didn’t know how to process them and so uh we talked about this we were on the all on the panel at Splash Houston last week or this past weekend and we talked about it we almost had to reset we had to like kind of
09:37
start from scratch we had to come up with boundaries we had to figure out what we were okay with what we weren’t okay and then almost start over because we knew if we didn’t do that we were going to break up it just wasn’t going to work the way that we were doing it so
09:51
we were like okay let’s give this like a fair shot and if it works great and if it doesn’t okay well we at least tried and somehow it worked do you think that the were you had the the feelings of jealousy and so forth that was like when he would go on a date with a single
09:05
person or were you just dating with dating couples and vice versa we doing both the time yeah okay I just think I was falling in love with him and it’s hard to fall in love with someone and them go like it wasn’t like we’ had been married for 20 years and we had all this
09:19
trust and all these things established we didn’t have any of that there was nothing there there was no Foundation to kind of build on so it was just hard to figure out those emotions like I knew sex you can have sex without emotion I knew we could go and be with this couple
10:35
and come back to me and be fine but it was almost like my mind didn’t understand it like I had to like figure out or I don’t know it’s very hard for me to explain it yeah I think it’s like some of that we didn’t have the because honestly now we would probably if we did
10:49
something we don’t play separately we only usually play together but I think we would be better at it now then because we have that base Foundation of I know you love me I know I trust you uh you know we’ve been you know we have this family and this life together now
10:02
that it’s important to us and that we wouldn’t just want to walk away from so we’re just a lot more invested with in each other now than we were when we had just started dating you know early on yeah I remember you talking about that where it was it wasn’t like you became
10:15
monogamous but you really centered on just the two of you and getting those boundaries and that like what does our relationship look like and getting that platform set and then going back to what you were were doing that’s basically what we did we just took a little time
10:29
um worked on us figured out what we liked and what we were okay with and figured out our schedule so we could be together more and once we kind of worked through all that I think it just became a little bit easier we started to like meet couples and swing together and so I
11:44
think it just kind of evolved into something probably a lot more healthy what you say did you decide not because now you just play together now we do yeah did you decide before you were married you weren’t going to play separately anymore that yeah but I think it was organically like we never really
11:00
like said okay you’re not going to go have sex cuz see we actually did um there was a few people that like we both had like prior yeah so like we made sure like we didn’t just like cut those people off we made sure to like we we handled that respectfully but I don’t it just
11:19
naturally we found that we would just want to do stuff together and we would wait would you say that yeah I don’t even really I don’t remember if we ever decided to only do it just happed natur but for us that’s I mean what I enjoy about the lifestyle is seeing her
12:34
and you know the compersion aspect of it it’s one of my favorite parts so um we’re just there’s not a lot of interest in separate play now there has been like recently times when maybe like like like Splash for example I was there a day and a half before she was and there was some
12:49
talk about well you know if if it happens maybe I’d be okay with the certain people that we know and trust um so I don’t think we’re even against it now it’s just we’re maybe more cous and selective of who we would do that with people that we have that trust with you
12:03
know I I have like a lot of questions that I but there’s this one that I I keeps coming back to me so I think with you Dan most people in the audience would not be surprised that you were this single man you were in the lifestyle or that you were having a lot of sex you know because we talk about
12:23
that so often with men’s sex strive and but with women we don’t tend to talk about that she was a bigger [ __ ] than I was well and that’s that’s kind of the thing that I want to get into cuz we don’t talk about that and you were so casually like we both really like to
13:38
have a lot of sex when you were talking and so can you touch on that and how can women kind of like come up and own that well I wasn’t always that way I was married in my early 20s we were married for six years and I was never a super sexual person in that marriage I I just
13:55
did what everyone told you to do you get married and you have sex like once a week or once every two weeks and that I just did that because I thought that that’s what you do that was the platform yeah that’s what you do and then that that marriage ended and I did have a
13:08
couple of long-term relationships and they were very vanilla like they were not anything crazy and I do remember my last long-term relationship I was interested in girls and that’s kind of what brought me to the lifestyle I wasn’t like I wouldn’t say I was bisexual I just was interested in
13:26
exploring that side and that’s kind of what got brought me into looking at the lifestyle but then I loved the idea that I could have good sex and I started to kind of embracing my sex life and I I enjoyed it and I think that I like the fact that I could have a lot of sex but
14:47
and I could benefit from that but not have a partner I was okay with being by myself at that point I felt like I had done the house the white picket fence the dog and it just kept not working so I was like let’s try something else and then I just kind of leaned into my
14:04
sexuality and really enjoyed it I’m not like even now i’ I’ve been with plenty of girls and I’m not the most bisexual woman out there probably more selective but I I don’t know it just kind of gave me the okay to be sexual and now I’m just I’m not afraid to say that anymore
14:22
so the bisexual yeah or the the all of it okay cuz that that was going to be my next question this kind of like I I found out it was okay to have good sex like well what does that look like you know mainly men mainly men I’m definitely like if I had to choose between a man and a woman I’m going to
15:40
always choose the man but I enjoy females and I think that’s kind of what was my draw to the lifestyle originally and so what do you think was that Tipping Point where you were like oh it’s gone from like this responsibility that I have within a relationship to something that I can
15:57
actually like gain personal satisfaction from this or I can be in touch with my sexuality CU I think so often that gets missed with women and it’s like this chore or this task instead of like a vacation from whatever’s going on in the world or you know like you get to walk
15:16
away with just like that felt so good yeah and that’s like kind of how I said earlier about the had never been in life style with emotions it was something so ref refreshing to go and engage with a couple and then get to get in my car and drive away and no I have to deal with
16:32
that like I could just come in and I could be like the shiny new object and the prize sort of and like almost be worshiped in a way and I really could just Embrace that I was able to like enhance a couple’s experience but also get a lot from it and then the next day
16:49
I got to just go home and I didn’t have to deal with all the baggage that came with it and I got to just be sexual and free and wanted and I genuinely enjoyed that and then I could find someone you know and then or I could go back to that couple there did become a Time prior to
16:07
me Dan that it was getting to the point where I was wanting some of those emotions not necessarily with those couples but I caught myself the next day being lonely you know because they had each other they could talk about the experience so both both sides of it you know I experien I
16:27
think yeah that’s really interesting that you would have that feeling of like after time gone leaving and then feeling lonely I went through some of that too when I was single I was really not trying at all to get into a relationship I just had a handful of women that I was
17:43
dating but there were times I’m like I really just had wish I had someone here to wake up with in the morning yeah same yeah or like I would hear people going to clubs or parties and they always had like someone to go with and like sometimes I wished I had someone to go
17:58
with and sometimes I would connect with a single male and go but then they wanted to like make me theirs you know like they wanted to like claim me and I didn’t really want that either like I wanted to pick the person I don’t know and I felt like I was kind of settling
17:14
going with like a random person yeah people can get possessive pretty quickly very quickly yeah very quickly I found that with being a unicorn they once I found a good quality couple they wanted to like latch on and keep me around you are a girlfriend now yeah yeah basically
17:29
yeah and did you have a similar experience Dan or so I I think I was similar in a way that I was in a monogamous relationship for 13 years and once I got out of that Rel relationship I had kind of given up on monogamy like same thing like lacy is saying is like I
18:44
tried to do the white picket fence and the kids and the dog and and it just didn’t work and I think I blame myself for a lot of that because I wasn’t super good at monogamy um but then you know I went from the white picket fence with the the wife and the dog in the kids to
18:59
like I’m in an empty house now you know what I mean and I only see my kids on the weekends and so I think there was some I wanted to fill that void in that space and and so but also didn’t want to commit to somebody and and go down that road and get hurt again so in some ways
18:16
the lifestyle kind of filled that like I can go out with people and I can have fun and I can have sex and but then I know that there’s no there was no expectation of me to call and text and and keep that relationship going so um yeah it was it was a lot of fun for
19:31
me in that way um but yeah I think the same thing like lacy that that there were sometimes when you know on a Wednesday night you’re home alone and like just watching TV and you’re like what what am I doing with my life you know kind of so to speak so um but I I was really you know when me and Lacy
19:46
started dating you know she started kind of like oh I think we could date and I think we could be in a relationship I definitely pursued him and I was like there’s no way like we live 500 miles apart like you have a kid in your city I have my kids here like like what is that
19:01
there’s no like I’m and I was pretty much St up like I’m going to end up cheating on you and and breaking your heart and it’s not going to work so don’t do it like don’t like we’re not doing this and I didn’t take no for an answer I was like we’re going to make it
19:11
work we’re going to figure it out I just knew there was something about him and I can’t put my finger on it I just it was something that I could feel and I was like No we’re going to like we’re going to do this we’re going to make it which is kind of crazy but like I definitely
19:24
have pursued him I just had this like gut feeling that this was meant to to be and so and we actually got married still living long distance and we lived separate for the first year or so of our marriage CU he was active duing military yeah yeah we did the same we did the
20:42
same thing yeah so I wasn’t willing to move cuz I had a child in school and I knew we only had a few years left in the military and I was like I’m not uprooting him and moving him when I know you’re almost then so we’ll just we’re just going to make it work okay so then
20:56
here’s the thing CU I think John and I would agree with this so you did the white picket fence and the traditional marriage and it just there was something there that wasn’t working but in this relationship where it’s much more open it does why do you think that is well
20:15
I’ve never had a relationship where I can communicate and tell them every single thing I’m thinking I think in every other relationship I was in I’ve always felt like I hit a piece and not really on purpose it was never I never was made I don’t know why I just did and
21:31
I think because we started out as friends and we really had no interest in being in like we never I never would have thought we would have got married um I was just always very open I told him all the weird stuff I was into and I just I don’t know I just felt super
21:47
comfortable with him and so I’ve never felt like I needed to hide anything and that’s I I don’t think you even realize it if when you’re doing it so it’s just so refreshing to know that I can just like be my true authentic self and he’s going to love me no matter what yeah
21:05
it’s similar for me I think I was always kind of a sexual being I think I liked pushing limits and boundaries and exploring fantasies um you know and in previous relationships and I don’t and I’m not even blaming my partner that I had at the time but they were also taught that
21:20
that you just don’t do that that’s not okay it’s wrong and so at one point in time I’m like there’s something wrong with me like I like I should be happy right now I have this I have a wife I have these beautiful children I have a good job we have a nice house a nice car
22:34
like why am I Tex why am I texting girls on the side you know why am I doing like what is wrong with me and I just it just I I couldn’t not do that you know what I mean for whatever reason and you know I’m sure there’s people that are like well yeah because you’re a cheating you
22:49
and they entitled through their opinion but there it wasn’t that I didn’t love my wife it wasn’t that I wasn’t happy in that relationship I was just always seeking some I wanted explore these other things right um and so I did it kind of unethically at the time so like
22:04
lacy is saying when we first started dating and talking we told each other everything and you know everything everything things I had never told a woman in my life um and she was like well that kind of sounds cool like that sounds hot and like yeah well maybe we
22:15
can go to tra pus we can try to do that and it’s like who the hell are you like nobody says that like what you know and I was like kind we’re talking about earlier I was trying to convince her that I was not the man for her that this is like you know I’m not the person I’ve
22:29
you know I hurt a couple girls already and I just don’t want to do that you seem like a sweet young lady I don’t want to hurt you and she she just convinced me like you’re not going to like I like this this is what I’m into this it’s okay like we can do this together we can figure out a schedule
23:44
that works we can you know we we can make this work and it took I mean I I it took months of those conversations and at the time I lived about an hour away from work so in the mornings I’d get in my car and I’d start driving to work and I would call her and we would just talk
23:58
for an hour about everything underneath the Sun and then on the way home from work I would call her and sometimes it was oh who you [ __ ] today and how was that and know you know was was a good dick like did you like it did you come did you squirt like and then sometimes
23:10
all that stuff sometimes it would be about dogs or you know like who knows what but we talked about all the things and just slowly slowly over time and she was like well you know I’ve talked to my ex-husband and we’re going you know I’m do week on week off with my son and so
23:24
that would give me a week and she worked remote at the time on her job and she’s like like you I can work right from home so I could come and like spend some time with you and and it took some time and some chipping away but eventually I was like all right like come let’s just
24:37
we’ll do a week and see what happens we’ll see what happens and it just broke down she hasn’t left my side since you know when you read of me I just had this feeling I don’t know I had I had no idea that this would be where our lives would be I I didn’t know I just felt I think
24:52
with him for the first time in my life I felt alive like I can remember driving to him the first time and I felt like I don’t know like I could feel my heart beating I could feel like butterflies and I never felt like that with anybody else I dated married anything and I
24:09
don’t know I just couldn’t let go of that I wasn’t willing it’s the craziest thing when you talk to somebody and they tell their story and is so similar to our simar I mean we just talked and talked we became we toally each other everything I told her things I never told anyone in my life she was
24:25
supportive of it vice versa I would the first time time our our relationship started on the telephone just talking we hadn’t we had met apart and after a week of that I I I was falling in love and I I mean that quickly I just felt like this like this was right and I flew out there to see
25:44
her to see if in real it was going to work and all the way there like you’re describing I was excited I’m thinking oh my God I wonder if this is just going to be a bummer and I’m going to have to go home and you I mean I just I hope not I really want to be real like how I was
25:58
iming it being and it was better than yeah but God it was so exciting it still is exciting I can remember calling my mom like I don’t don’t ask me any questions but I need you to walk to my dog because I’m getting in the car and I’m going to Virginia and I’m visiting
25:12
this guy that you’ve never heard of and she’s like what are you doing and I’m like just don’t ask any questions I’m just doing it I’m just doing it you know so I mean in a lot of ways it was crazy but I just had this feeling that there was something there that I couldn’t
25:25
describe and it it somehow worked out so once you two got married and you know you’ve started this life together what was the Catalyst that made you start talking about it openly and then doing a podcast and then you know just like what what was that trip like well it’s actually not as good a story
26:48
as I’d like it to be you know what I mean but uh I was I was in the military I was in the Army and I was deployed overseas um and so you know we had we we just got married right yeah it was like eight months after we got married yeah and so again because we talk about
26:03
everything in a very open part of the conversation was we know you’re going to be gone for 6 months we know we’re both very sexual people how are we going to maintain that connection right how are we going to work through this without one of us hurting each other you know
26:18
like without how we going to fill those needs and those those voids um and so this was right after um Co um and only fans had just started to become a thing and I was the one that was like well if you get on only fans and just start like she was sending me pictures and emailing
27:34
me stuff and text messaging me because he was bored so he was like trying to get me to do all I’m trying cuz I’m horny cuz I had sexing month so I’m trying to get her like I’m trying to get her to do all the things right send me a picture of you and your panties she’s
27:48
like I’m trying to drop the kid off of school right now like leave me alone cuz we were on a 12h hour differ so like I was trying to not think about sex cuz you know I had a heart so I’m like okay that’s all I’m thinking I’m like I’m going to exercise I’m going to get
27:59
skinny I’m going to organize the house like I’m going to do all these things while he’s gone and he’s over here like make yourself come in the car with a camera and I’m like what no leave me alone you know and he was just like I was like stop so we were like not arguing but like we were frustrated a
27:15
little bit with each other cuz we were trying to figure different pages yeah so I said well if you do if you start an only fans page when you have free time during the day or whatever snap a picture of you like make a little video you can post it on there and then when I
27:29
have free time I can get on there and I can look at it and not only can I look at it and enjoy it myself but if you get guys that subscribe like they’ll comment and say things so that’s kind of sexy right which kind of sexy and hot too you know like we had no plans of making
28:42
money we had no it was not a financial thing at all it was more of like it’s just like a naughty outlet for us but and part of it’s like and if you make a little bit of money they pay for your hair and your nails your makeup like good like thank God like you know I mean
28:56
you know I mean and so she did that and then of course I’m bored like so I’m working you know I’m in the military and I’m working long shifts but when I’m not on shift like I have nothing to do so I’m just like so I started Googling like how do you make money on only fans like
28:09
how do you get subscribers and and one of the things that had come up off over and over was Tik Tok and and so I was like you know would be kind of cool if you made a Tik Tok talking about swinging like that’s kind of because we were swingers that’s kind of naughty
28:22
that’s kind of dirty you know and like nobody at the time was doing that on Tik Tok and I’m like maybe that’ll help cuz you know what I’m reading here is if you make Tik toks it’ll drive people to your only fans page and she was kind like H I don’t know that seems kind of silly and
29:34
I’m like yeah just just try and see what happens so she posted a couple videos and the third video I think it was the third video she posted I think she like she had pineapple earrings on it and she just like how do you know somebody’s a swinger or whatever and she flipped the
29:46
pineapple on on her ear upside down and that video Hit 11 million views yeah in like a span of like three days so everybody knew I mean when you get on your Tik Tok all of your videos are like 4 million 5 million 6 million 7 I mean it’s like I wish it was all we have a
29:05
few yeah we do have some but yeah so very quickly everybody knew that we were swingers and I’m alone he’s in the Middle East 12 hours away and I’m like panicking because I had convinced everybody that I was this Sweet Southern Girl Who barely has sex who doesn’t do
29:21
anything no one not even my best friends knew we were swingers so we had completely kept it under wraps so very quick everybody knew so then you know it came not about the only fans like that was like a little like that wasn’t even a big deal it was all about that we were
30:37
swingers and everybody knew my ex-husband my mom my dad so they saw the Tik Tok videos people started sharing it sending it back what I didn’t realize about Tik Tok is the way I understand Tik Tok to work now is you post a video right and that video goes out geographically to people in your area
30:55
right and depending on how many people click like comment then it will go out into a Wider Circle Into A Wider Circle Into A Wider Circle but it shows it to people in your area first cuz they think that’s the people that are most likely to connect if you’re making a Tik Tok in
30:09
Oklahoma about farming well farmers in Oklahoma are probably going to care about that more than people in New York right so it kind of pushes that video out geographically so not only does she have 11 million views but probably a million of those people are people that
30:21
are like geographically around us which are her her family and her cousins and her aunt and I still live in the same to even now I still live in the same so like I was going to Walmart or School pickup and I was just I was devastated I was so devastated and he is like yes you know you did
31:43
it I’m retiring like you got this like and he’s like all the way away and I’m just you know I was devastated I was like take it down he’s like no and I was like take it down and he was like I’m not taking it down I was like you’re taking it down so he ended up taking it
31:59
down but he was like you realize this is like a once in A- lifetime like that was it we only and I was like yes I don’t want anybody know I’m swinger I cannot believe everybody knows too late and it was too late but I didn’t at the time I wasn’t I wasn’t being logical I wasn’t
31:13
being logical I didn’t care you know I didn’t I just wanted it to go away and then few weeks later I was like can we try again and he was like what and I was like yeah because like everyone knows now he’s like I tried to tell you that I was like I know but like I needed some
32:30
time to kind of process it and go through the emotions because like I wasn’t embarrassed that I was a swinger I love the lifestyle I believed in the lifestyle I just wanted to be able to tell people and I feel like my story was taken away from me a little I mean like
32:46
we did it we posted it but we did not know what we were getting ourselves into I thought it was like Facebook you know like you make a Facebook post sure some people will see it but you never expect everybody to see it just didn’t know and we should have known we just didn’t
32:02
though we were kind of naive to the fact that what we were kind of getting ourselves into so we ended up bringing the Tik Tok back and posting again and it went viral again so we did it somehow I don’t he was like we never that’ll never happen yeah we can’t put that back
32:17
in the Box yeah but it um it did went viral again and then so it very quickly it started out about only fans but very quickly that was just kind of like on the side you know yeah people we realize that people just wanted information they just wanted to know all the things they
33:32
wanted to know about jealousy and how like how do we do this and have kids and how like all these questions how do you meet people like how do you find clubs like all these questions how do you handle your relationship so people started asking these questions and I
33:46
would try to answer them as quickly as I can but everything on Tik Tok is short it’s it’s gotten longer now but at the time was very short simple quick answer so people started asking for a podcast and we knew nothing about about podcast we were like okay maybe we could do this
33:02
but it was um a risk because he was still active du the military oh that’s right but we were like okay let’s just do it and he researched and figured out and then we would take the questions that people would ask the most and we make a podcast episode about it and now
33:17
that’s been three years like later and you guys are now teachers yeah we’re like we’re just a couple who were trying to figure it out too you know we still struggle sometimes you know so um it’s just kind of been a crazy Whirlwind s if we had planned this if we had tried to
34:33
do it it would have never worked out the way that it did but we kind of it just so happened like as you know her Tik Tok and Instagram and the podcast was starting to grow and we started to make a little bit of income off of that it started to be just enough to where hey
34:47
we could almost live off of that and so I was coming up on retirement from the military uh she had end up quitting her job and it’s like okay well we could maybe do this fulltime and it was scary we weren’t sure we’re like well maybe but you know it’s a big leap to to do
34:02
that and we decided just to do it and here we are 3 years later well only really like two years later from me retirement but and doing it full-time it’s really amazing what what’s the biggest what’s the biggest impact that you would like to see as a result of doing this like on the on the lifestyle
34:22
I you too cuz you’re passionate he’s been passionate since day one he’s had to kind of like take me along with it and I I share the passion he’s just a little bit little bit more there than yeah I think well and I think it comes you know I did 21 years in the Army and you know
35:40
basically Fighting For Freedom right like you know and I’ve seen my friends die for that you know what I mean and we’ve I’ve been overseas and seen people with wives and kids and and lay down and sacrifice their life for freedom and then this lifestyle you know it’s most
35:56
of our friends are in it like you know and it’s it’s so amazing for us so the fact that we live in this country and we say we’re a free country but you see a a whole group of people that can’t live their authentic life because if they do they’re going to probably get fired you
35:10
know they might get their kids taken away from them um you know some of them you know can’t even get apartments and things like that if they’re somebody that’s polymer you know so you see this people and you’re like these people aren’t doing anything illegal they’re
35:23
consenting to it you know they’re all doing this of their Free Will and this is a free country like you cannot tell these people that they cannot do this um and they shouldn’t be discriminated against if if they do choose to do it and be and be open about it um and so
36:38
I’m pretty passionate about that because I’ve seen people lay down their life for this freedom and I don’t feel like we’re free to do what we want to do in this community and in this lifestyle um yeah so we we’re pretty passionate about that so we’ we’ve got involved with groups
36:52
like open and groups like ncsf and wood Hall to try to you know spearhead some of the advocacy see work and you know that’s hard and it’s slow moving and um but you know the groups are starting to do things you’re starting to see you know open love.org has passed
36:06
anti-discrimination laws I think in four major cities in the US now I know Oakland California and Somerville Massachusetts are two that I know off the top of my head but there’s two others I think that have passed passed those kind of laws so we try to use our voice as best we can for to try to push
36:21
that advocacy stuff at our events we do fundraisers for for groups like open and ncsf um you know just try to be kind of a positive voice and and hopefully we keep moving that dial a little bit more to where people can can start to open up and I will say when we first started
37:37
posting videos on Tik Tok there was maybe three or four maybe five other creators that were on Tik Tok at the time um talking about the lifestyle and we’re actually friends with most of them now because we reached out to them all and we’re like Hey we’re doing this too
37:50
and let’s talk about like which hashtags to use and what we can say what we can’t say this out together and so we made very good friends with with a lot of and you know some of them um now uh but now we scroll Tik Tok every day and almost every day when I’m scrolling through Tik
37:05
Tok I see a new face and they have a pineapple and they’re flipping it upside down and they’re talking about the lifestyle and how they they love it and how it’s important to them and and you know it went from five people to now I think there’s hundreds if not thousands
37:18
of people doing it so I do think you know it’s starting the people are starting to kind of whatever come out from behind the closet or come open it up whatever term you want to use for that um I think it’s starting to happen more and more every day and we’re seeing
38:31
it more and more every day so that means a lot to us and do you think that that’s kind of the Catalyst for this to happen is more people being visible 100% I mean I think it’s hard and I get it if you know even us if if we weren’t doing this full-time and I had a government job
38:47
working for a defense contractor or something like that you just wouldn’t be able to do it you know you would be too much risk to come out and be open so you know I think it really is important for the people that that can it that you know most of the people you know that
38:59
are public own their own business or have their own you know construction company or are somehow you know their own bosses in some way shape or form um so I think the more people that can slowly open up and and and show people that what this is I think that’s the
38:13
only way you’re really going to affect change for the community overall and I hadn’t really thought about it in this way but on Tik Tok on the fact that you know you guys started and other people join in and more and more is as people see more and more coming out it gives
38:29
them the courage to come out so that’s it’s almost becoming viral of itself so that’s true that’s true and I think it’s also nice for people that maybe aren’t interested in the lifestyle to see us and see okay we’re not what TV portrays or what they’ve always been taught about
39:45
swingers we look just kind of like them and we could be you know someone that works with you or friends with you and I think that’s nice that when they hear someone in their town is a swinger maybe they don’t look down upon them just kind of show a different side of the
39:59
lifestyle right well and we have found in our experience that we have questions from people that are in traditional monogamous relationships because you think about it you only have the tools that you have within the relationship you’re in and if those tools aren’t working knowing that you
39:21
can ask somebody else that will have a different perspective on maybe how to look at some so that you can shift and move and create a better closer relationship um can just be so impactful for these people and I to marginalize us means that other people are missing out
40:40
on the knowledge that we have um in that so I think that’s I mean my message to monogamous people out there is listen to us and learn how to communicate with each other try and push the envelope a little bit in your communication maybe talk a little bit about sex and it
40:55
doesn’t have to be about sex with other people it about you know come up with some fantasies within your with you and your spouse and do some things and I we’ve seen couples that are in monogamous relationships have a much better relationship because of better communication about sex and other things
40:11
too but you can um I know so many other people that are that have just like really mundane marriages and like oh I don’t want to go back there yeah same what would you say one of the biggest misconceptions people have about those of us that are in more open relation
40:27
relationships are in consensually non- monogamous relationships I think just from social media and the feedback that we get I think people think that we just have sex with everyone right yeah I think that they think that like every you know I can be getting ready on Tik
41:42
Tok to go pick up my child from the car rider line and they’re like do you have a hot date I’m like no it’s 3:30 it’s it’s time to go pick up my kids like I’m not no you know it’s Tu State like I don’t do that you know um I think they think it’s just like a revolving door
41:57
people are in and out in and out again I think the STDs kind of go along with that I think they think we’re all just riddled with STDs and to be honest with you uh well first of all we only swing once or twice a month and we don’t add very many new partners either it’s
41:14
usually a lot of the same people that we have good connection with and we care about um and we trust um as far as STDs I as a vanilla person I was never STD tested not one time but as a non monogamous person I’m tested every 45 days I use protection you know I was a
42:33
20 I was a 20-some year old girl meeting guys and never even had them wear never even had them wear a condom I was lucky I was genuinely lucky I never got anything but I can guarantee most people that are meeting people on Tinder or traditional dating websites are probably
42:50
not one not getting tested and probably not always wearing protection but yet we are basically torn apart on social media because they think we’re riddled with STDs yeah yeah so that’s definitely a huge misconception and I love that you bring that up because like you said I
42:07
think that’s an a misconception that we have out there and trying to convince people that no it’s actually the opposite we’re much more aware of it because we can talk about it we don’t have to act like we’re not doing these things we can just be open I mean every
42:23
single lifestyle convention that’s out there Hotel takeover there’s something about yeah protecting ourselves and being aware of what we’re doing and getting tested and all those things and it’s an easier conversation like we have plans at the end of the month with two other
43:37
couples and yesterday all the wives were on a group chat and they were like hey our less test was this day is that okay do you want us to be tested before like and we’re still wearing protection like everyone’s going to be wearing protection during this like time but
43:51
everyone’s just being safe it’s okay to talk about it doesn’t have to be awkward it’s just a fluid conversation and even if it does even if something does happen there’s still open communication we can still talk about it so I just I just love that yeah I think it’s it’s one of
43:09
my pet peeves over the years is the stigma that comes from it’s why it’s called a sexual transmitted disease but people don’t seem be worried about catching flu or anything else like that you can catch that having sex I usually come home sick from just about every
43:24
gets UTI all the time it’s like that’s it’s another infection you know why these certain infections are so stereotypical and looked down upon is cuz most of them are treated the same way go get man box should be fine like more easily and readily treated honestly
44:40
I’d rather have one of those than be in bed for two weeks with some kind of flu or pneumonia I tend to kiss a l I’ll take gonorrhea over Co any day oh God that’s a quote right there that’s going to be the time let anybody pick this up but Surly it’s an EAS we had a friend who tested we talked
44:06
about this a little yesterday we had a friend that tested positive we were go we were going International like the next week and we were wedding on our test results and we didn’t want to leave the country and then find out that we tested POS so we actually were treated
44:18
as a precautionary and we left and D was like that was super easy that was just a shot in the butt he’s like we have had we’ve been very fortunate we’ve never tested positive for anything but we’ve had all this amazing sex and all these amazing experiences like if all I knew
45:33
it was just a little shot in the butt I would have you know like it’s nothing this are so afraid of it they’re so afraid yeah yeah another thing that I want to ask just real quick is you know both of you mentioned that you have children so how are they responding to
45:53
this um we have 14 19 20y old so three the 19 and 20-year-old did not care they really thought it was weird that Dad had social media followers if anything like they thought it we followers on Tik Tok they were like people watch about you they were really Blown Away by that
45:14
part of it they were I think a little embarrassed about it just you know it’s I think to talk about sex with teenagers is always a little bit embarrassing and stuff like that but now it’s it’s kind of fun like we’ll walk we’ll walk by one of those stands where they make like the
45:27
Apple drinks and my kids were like Snicker and oh there’s your pineapple dad um but in a lot of ways it’s opened them up to be able to have more uncomfortable conversations with us because I think my kids growing up really saw me as this conservative military guy who just was closed-minded
46:46
and you know kind of you know what you would think of a conservative understand talk to them and so when they found out and about us and you know kind of what we were doing and that like lacy was bisexual you know they start like my daughter was like well actually I’m bisexual too and
46:01
it just opened up a lot of conversations that play like a safe place for them to talk which was nice so I think it kind of painted me in probably a light that they had never seen me before and I think they are more comfortable coming to us with some of those harder conversations than they were
46:16
prior and mine is 14 um he found out from school another parent told their child and their child went to school and told people and so if I had the biggest regret of all this I would have sat him down and had a better conversation he did know that we were public he did know
47:32
that we had a podcast he knew we were on social media but he was told that we just support um alternative relationship CS so if that’s two girls a guy and a girl if it’s three people that we just support and love everyone and that’s the truth that is that was not like a sex P
47:50
he knew that we but he didn’t know that we how involved you he didn’t know that we actively engaged with other couples so it was a hard you know conversation but we had it and we’ve moved forward and we’ve just kind of embraced it I will say um a few weeks ago I saw this
47:06
on the internet and I thought it was genius to ask your kid what their favorite thing about you is and then what their least favorite and you do it back and forth you know so it’s kind of a way to learn and communicate with your kids so I asked him I said what is your
47:17
favorite thing about me and he said I love that you’re just yourself and you don’t care what anybody thinks and I almost cried I was say I almost cried you know because like I was like I cuz part of you always wonders you know are we [ __ ] them up you know are we doing
48:31
you just don’t know and when he said that I just it hit me pretty hard and I was like he’s seeing the bigger picture here you and so it means a lot and I ultimately our kids love us and they probably think we’re a little weird and like oh my gosh you know but I think
48:47
they see what we’re doing and they just love us unconditionally and that’s all that matters yeah but I also do think that this you know again my kids are 19 and 20 they’re gener ation is so much more open to you know gender fluidness and you know so I I don’t think being in
48:05
an alternative relationship is as abstract to them as it was to us when we were their age yeah I think that’s I think that’s why so often when I talk to parents they’re like oh my kids would not understand but it’s like you wouldn’t understand because of your age
48:24
but I mean you got to kind of give the younger generation some cred they’re in a different so much more access to information they’re much more open to a little more laidback about some of that stuff I mean sure you’re going to still have some of the stigmas but you know you got to give your kids
49:39
credit you got to trust that the relationship that you have with them is going to be okay and even if it’s not I mean allowing them at least they know who you are and that’ll be a lesson you know I love who that you’re who you are and that that’s an important thing so we
49:54
did an interview one time where they asked that question about our kids and and uh I I loved your response back then too well both of us really it’s important for us to be honest with our kids what do we want to teach them how to be dishonest how to be dishonest and
49:07
so when they ask we we told them and you know depending on their age how much information you give them when it comes to sex is one thing but to to try and hide who we are as people to me is is really just hurting the kids and teaching them that they can do that with
49:22
other people too the one thing about like all the things we’ve talked about today is the trust and honesty and communic we have with each other that we didn’t have I you shared about how you didn’t have that in your monogamous marriage and in this relation in our relationship and yours too we that’s
50:35
what that’s really the core of it and the foundation of it is honesty yeah yeah I really felt like I was always holding something kind like lacy said always holding something back when you can truly like give all of yourself and be open with all of yourself to your partner it just is a different
50:50
relationship it feels like you’re loved on a different level they love all parts of you your spouse they love all the good good and the bad and you don’t have to hide anything from anyone and that’s like so refreshing did you find that to be challenging at all cuz I know with me
50:08
just even trusting that I could tell him like absolutely everything you know I mean just like even coming to my own truth about who I was so was any of that kind of a challenge or did it just I think it just happened naturally it was I think it was easier because when we did
50:27
we weren’t planning to be together soot I was telling I was almost trying to convince her that you’re I’m not the one you want listen I like this I’m into this I do this and I’m trying to convince this girl like this is I’m not the man and she’s like oh that kind of
51:42
that’s okay like that’s hot and that’s fun I’m like what is wrong with you what are you talking about like so I think it wasn’t hard because I wasn’t like I was not going to somebody that I love he was trying to like woo me over he wasn’t trying to show me all of his good I was
51:55
trying to convince her I was not the guy for her like it was the opposite and then she just kept being like that’s cool that’s okay that’s fine and I was like well it was cool fine you know like it some of the stuff was hot some of some of it was like okay maybe not but
51:08
like good for you you know you tell yeah there were some times with John and I he was like you really haven’t done this before I was like no yeah yeah oh yeah I I really when we first got together I thought she was not being honest with me I’m like there’s no way no no no promise on you okay I don’t
51:29
know this girl is not telling me something I was glad he came into my life because I was unicorn because everybody just like was like cuz unicorns are hard to find everybody was like over here over here so I felt like I was just like a little too wild I needed to calm myself down a little or I
52:45
was going to probably burn myself out so I actually said I was like I’m Glad You Came because I needed to like be tamed a little you know I was was a little promiscuous I was living my best life let’s just say I love that God dang it that is just so cool you still are yeah I am very much
52:04
so but now I have a partner we get to do it together and it’s fun and we get to talk about it and it is it’s much more it is so I don’t know how many of you out there don’t know about them probably not very many but if you don’t tell us where they can find you tell them where
52:19
they can find you yeah if you go to the swing nation. info you’ll find links to all our social media the podcast our events everything the swing Nation info and we’ve got an event coming up you know I know this is goes on forever and ever but we’ll put it out there anyway uh in
53:35
January 25 January 25 Dallas yes the Dallas location so we’ll be there with Dan and Lacy so we want you guys to all come out and join us and then what else oh open love.org that’s a great great place to give money to that’s more like political change like really getting
53:55
with government yeah and they definitely need your help and uh Jack and I give them money I think Dan L do as well and if you guys are able to give a little bit of something to them that would be great there’ll be a link below here for that and also with uh National Coalition
53:09
of social seual freed freed and CSF so Accord make sure those links are on there and donate some money and then anything else you guys want to share I think you cover it John I’m so glad you guys are here I’ve just been dying to talk to you guys and I just love the
53:25
message that you have and and how you share it and the people that you reach because that’s where that difference is and that’s what’s going to make change is Grassroots stuff so thank you for doing that yeah and thank you for teaching Jackie how to make simple Tik
54:41
Tok videos thank you for showing me how to make simple TI you did amazing you did amazing all right guys thanks for joining us today see you see you bye so did you like that video then be sure and click on that subscribe button below and you’ll be guaranted great sex the rest of your life
Courtney is the Marketing Director for Openlove101 and colette Clubs.