Exploring Relationship Models: Insights from Dr. Alyssa Webb-McCune

 

In today’s episode of the Openlove101 podcast, hosts John and Jackie Melfi engage with Dr. Alyssa Webb-McCune, a licensed professional counselor who specializes in relationship dynamics, including open relationships and consensual non-monogamy. The conversation delves into various relationship models, highlighting the underlying psychology and how understanding these frameworks can lead to healthier connections. With a wealth of experience, Dr. Webb-McCune shares valuable insights on the evolution of relationships and the critical role of communication.

The Spectrum of Relationship Models

Dr. Webb-McCune emphasizes that relationship models exist on a continuum, ranging from traditional monogamy to various forms of non-monogamy like polyamory and swinging. She points out that many couples enter therapy unaware of the options available to them, often adhering to societal norms without questioning their validity. Monogamy should not be assumed as the default; instead, couples should explore what relationship structures resonate most with their values and desires.

Understanding Individual Needs

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the importance of understanding individual needs within relationships. Dr. Webb-McCune advocates that partners should continuously assess their desires and boundaries, encouraging open dialogue about what works for them. She challenges assumptions like, “He should know what I want,” by urging couples to articulate their expectations clearly. This proactive approach not only fosters intimacy but also prevents misunderstandings and resentment from developing over time.

 

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The Role of Consent and Communication

At the core of successful relationship dynamics is the principle of enthusiastic consent. Dr. Webb-McCune emphasizes that whether couples choose monogamy or non-monogamous relationships, they must prioritize open communication and mutual agreement on boundaries. She advises that couples regularly engage in evaluations to ensure their needs are being met and to recalibrate expectations as their relationship evolves. This commitment to continuous dialogue not only strengthens bonds but also empowers individuals to address insecurities and address conflicts before they compound.

Addressing Anxieties and Challenges

Transitioning to a non-monogamous relationship model often brings anxieties and insecurities to the forefront. Dr. Webb-McCune highlights the importance of emotional regulation and being aware of personal triggers associated with jealousy and fear. She provides tools for couples to navigate these feelings, such as mindfulness techniques to reduce heart rate during challenging conversations and fostering a supportive environment where both partners feel safe to express their vulnerabilities. 

Finding a Healthy Balance

 The episode concludes with Dr. Webb-McCune’s  practical tips for creating peaceful and centered relationships. She suggests embracing a certain level of consistent conflict, describing it as a healthy method to maintain open lines of communication. By regularly addressing minor grievances, couples will become less fearful of tackling bigger issues down the line. Additionally, Dr. Webb-McCune advises that partners practice self-advocacy, clarifying their needs not just in sexuality but in everyday decisions. This cultivated self-awareness lays the foundation for deeper intimacy and connection.

Conclusion: Embracing Change in Relationships

In summary, Dr. Alyssa Webb-McCune provides a comprehensive look at the myriad relationship models available and underscores the critical importance of communication and consent. As relationships evolve, so too must the dynamics within them. By proactively engaging in discussions about needs, managing anxieties, and embracing the full spectrum of relationships, couples can navigate challenges more effectively and foster a deeper connection with one another.

For those interested in exploring their relationship dynamics, whether in traditional or open formats, seeking recommendations from experienced practitioners like Dr. Webb-McCune can pave the way for more fulfilling and healthy interactions. Embrace the journey of relationship building and see where it takes you!

Check out Dr. Alyssa Webb-McCune:

https://www.naturalbalancecounseling….

  / naturalbalancecounseling  

  / naturalbalancecounseling  

 

Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Jackie Melfi: Hello, and welcome to the Openlove101 podcast. This is your show to discuss open relationships, the swinger lifestyle, consensual nonmonogamy, however you describe it. We’re here to talk about it. Your podcast is hosted by John and Jackie Melfi, the force behind the industry famous colette Swingers Clubs, and the award winning blog, openlove101.com. With over twenty years of combined experience in open relationships and coaching thousands of couples, they’re here to share with you the trials, tribulations, passion, and positivity of love and the lifestyle. And now your hosts, John and Jackie Melfi.

[00:00:41] Jackie Melfi: Hey everyone. Welcome to OpenLove101.com. Where is John? Where is John?

[00:00:48] John Melfi: I’m sitting over here.

[00:00:51] Jackie Melfi: I get front and center today and I’m super excited because we get to visit with Doctor. Alyssa Dr. Webb-McCune. And she’s a local how do you define yourself? Is it like a therapist? Therapist.

[00:01:08] Dr. Webb-McCune: Technically, it’s licensed professional counselor.

[00:01:10] Jackie Melfi: Licensed professional counselor here in Texas. And so I am super excited to kind of unwrap and get into her brain about the inner workings of relationship models and the differences and then how they’re similar and just kind of the psychology behind this relationship model that we have. I’m excited. So without further ado, of course John’s going to want me to remind everybody to click blue bells and follow us and all that good stuff. You guys have been with us long enough to know to do that. Anyway, so we’re going to dig right in and I have got so many questions. First of all, I’m super happy that you agreed to join us today to talk with us about some of the differences in some of the relationship models. First off, why don’t you tell us a little bit about you and what you do in your practice and how it’s significant and maybe different than other licensed counselors?

[00:02:14] Dr. Webb-McCune: Yes, absolutely. So I own a counseling practice that we’re based in North Houston but then also Downtown Houston and but then we can see anyone virtually within Texas. And so I think one of the biggest misconceptions people have about therapy is it’s like, oh, it’s always stuck in the past and it’s processing old stuff. And some of it is, right, or it can be, but our focus and what we do because of our population is very action oriented and solution focused. Yes, I care about where you’ve been but only because that’s gonna influence where you’re going and that really is our model and what we work with with all of our counselors. And so we see this a lot especially with relationships is because we see people come in with hurts of old relationships, relationships they aren’t in anymore, maybe the current ones they’re struggling with and I want to figure out what is the healthiest style and model of relationship that works for them moving forward. And this could be monogamy, non monogamy, It really all works with the same approach and which is why I’m really excited in talking about this. It’s I love it so much I actually got my doctor in sex therapy because I wanted to really really dive down deep into how do you find that inner connection and help couples in relationships and in sex and be able to live that most fulfilling life and not separate it from the rest of your life.

[00:03:40] Jackie Melfi: So do you have couples that come to you without realizing that there’s different relationship models?

[00:03:48] Dr. Webb-McCune: Mhmm. All the time. All the time. And it’s one of my favorite questions to ask honestly is when they say, well it has to be this way or well of course and there’s that assumption. I was like well why? Is that something y’all agreed on explicitly that you want this or well they just should have known? Okay. Did you have a conversation about it? Where did that should come from? And even within my monogamous couples I love that challenging because really it’s an entire just spectrum and gray, right, of the different rules expectations and boundaries. And so for me coming in without a set this is how this has to look. Right? Yes you wanna have values of honesty and integrity and all of that but what that actually looks like played out can look different for everybody as long as there’s enthusiastic consent, everyone’s on board, safe, sane, and consensual, anything’s anything’s possible.

[00:04:47] Jackie Melfi: So how often what would you say the percentages of couples when they come in looking for some kind of guidance or when you ask them about the relationship model that they’re in and the discussions that they had around that, what’s the percentage of couples that are like, What are you talking about? What do you mean discussion about what? We’re in this relationship model. What do you mean that there’s

[00:05:10] Dr. Webb-McCune: A lot. We see this a lot around gender expectations and rules. Even if they grew up in similar environments, there’s always the nuance differences. And so that’s one of the biggest that I see is well he’s supposed to do this and I’m supposed to do this or vice versa. Or when we look at money expectations or time expectations, career goals. There seems to be some mentality of well also what we kind of talked about in the beginning with dating is how it’s always gonna be and that’s something relationships and should be constantly evolving and changing and growing. And so if you’re not having that conversation with your partner regularly, hey what do you think? What are we doing in this area? Where are we going? Then you’re setting yourself up for failures, you’re setting yourself up for problems to pop up small but then they get bigger.

[00:06:04] JackieMelfi: And you know we’ve talked a little bit now about relationship models but maybe we should clarify a little bit about what we’re talking about. Obviously, John and I were heavy into what would be considered swinging, that consensual non monogamous platform. But what other relationship models are out there that you help deal with for these couples?

[00:06:30] Dr. Webb-McCune: So I support all different types of relationship models. So I see my religious heterosexual monogamous couples and then I also see my relationship anarchy, poly BDSM and kinky couples and all of that and I approach it the same way. Everyone no matter what style and model you have needs to be enthusiastic consent, know everything of what’s going on and consensual. And so we see all from this spectrum to we see a lot of polyamory as well and that’s actually something if anyone comes into my practice as a counselor I screen for in the hiring process and that I want to make sure that they are knowledgeable and affirming and skilled in knowing how to work with a variety of relationship types because it’s so important to make sure that you are supportive across the board. So we see polyamorous couples, we see BDSM and kink, we’re really heavily involved with that, swinging and really the gray spectrum that is all of that.

[00:07:33] Jackie Melfi: You know With the clubs that we own, we do see a growing number of couples that are coming in that fall under that kind of poly umbrella. And so we do get questions about what the differences are. What is different between a swinging couple and a poly couple? Can we touch on that a little bit?

[00:08:00] Dr. Webb-McCune: Yeah. There’s not a research based evidence based definition of course. Right? But the way that I mostly explain it to people is I put obviously the consensual non monogamy umbrella and usually you have I say like the extreme kind of swinger with heavy boundaries where it’s very sex focused. You see oftentimes they’re maybe they don’t never talk again because some couples have the we play once we never play again. There’s no crosstalk between genders. There’s that so it’s more the sex focused and then over here you have the poly focused which is poly defined as many loves. And so we’re looking at more of the emotional relationship that comes first. And so I know a lot of poly couples are individuals that they date individually and that’s a really important part of that and then it’s the kind of same progression of what you would see in a traditional monogamous relationship of let’s date we’re not having sex right away, we’re connecting, we’ll develop feelings and emotions and then have sex when it feels appropriate. But I put it on a spectrum because what I find is that there’s this weird meat in the middle and someone may start here and go here and then start here and kinda go here And it can constantly be changing and evolving depending on the time that the individual and couple has been in the lifestyle. When I say lifestyle, I mean all of this. Right? Mhmm. Time that they’ve been in the lifestyle, the progression of their relationship. It can also vary depending on their play partners that they meet. I see and this is what we see a lot is when people start out in swinging they’ll have these very strict boundaries and then they meet a certain couple or certain people and all of a sudden it upends their world. And that’s if I had to put a percentage that’s often what I see the couples or individuals coming in for and processing well what do I do now? Right? What does this mean? Right? I was okay with them having sex but not falling in love. What does that look like? And so processing well how are you defining that the way, where’s the security, what’s this doing to your attachment style? And my approach is I work with a different model with marriage therapy is I don’t work with the traditional approaches is mine is very confrontational, very blunt, very individual focused. And so I work in the you know if you’re having anxiety about it let’s advocate, let’s have those hard conversations but it’s also up for the person who’s having the anxiety to process through and regulate. Outbursts are not acceptable. You can still be upset, of course. Outbursts are not acceptable. You have to regulate. You have to advocate. And then being able to stand in your truth is really key. And being able to stand in I am genuinely okay with this or not okay because everyone hits a line. Right? And that line is going different for every person but you really don’t know until you’ve hit it. I say is that line coming from just I’m really scared? That’s different than I’m genuinely in my core just not okay with this. Mhmm. And that is very hard to find sometimes but that’s part of what we do in therapy. And usually we give it some time, give it a few sessions and sometimes we do see couples where one person’s hit a line, the other hasn’t and so then you decide, do you want to come back to and figure out okay we can work within this limit, right, and can you enthusiastically agree there’s gonna be no resentment, no bitterness, no hard feelings? Or do you have genuinely different desires and it’s time to part ways in the relationship?

[00:11:28] Jackie Melfi: And you know that can be a tricky thing which is because so often couples when they hit that wall or they come up against something that is creating some kind of fear or anger or the focus more often than not is outside of themselves. So both people within the couple can come into counseling with a motivation of, Can you get my partner over here to change what they’re doing so I don’t have to come up against this fear or this anger or my own insecurities? I don’t really want to deal with my insecurities because I don’t really feel like they’re my insecurities because all of a sudden they’re being raised by what my partner is doing. So it must be something my partner is doing that’s creating this. So I really love that so much of your focus is on accountability and responsibility and the value and the growth that comes by tapping into that. Yes. But that is a hard thing. You know when you’re in the middle of that it’s hard to see that.

[00:12:47] Dr. Webb-McCune: Oh it is. It is. And part of that kind of getting into the psychology of it is we see relationship threats as a physical threat. Our brain processes it the same exact way. So I say your spouse saying, hey I wanna talk to you about opening our relationship and a bear attacking you in the woods, same response in the brain and body. And we see that. Yeah. So I always say it’s not cliche that a therapist tells you to take deep breaths. What we’re trying to do is lower your heart rate, lower your adrenaline, get your frontal and prefrontal cortex back online so you can actually have a calm conversation. I actually sometimes have people wear heart rate monitors in session or I’ll tell them to watch their active watch if they have one and go, okay, if it hits like in that fat burning zone you’re accelerating, we’re stopping. We’re taking a time out. Two minutes to take a deep breath and then we’re coming back. And it’s the coming back that’s really key.

[00:13:40] Jackie Melfi: So kind of keeping that in mind with talking about just the drastic spectrum of people that you deal with, what would you say from a psychology standpoint or psychiatry standpoint the difference between couples that are in your more traditional monogamous relationship and those that seem to seek the outside the relationship connections at whatever level that is. Is there a psychological difference between those couples or is it just like what makes some people just like, Absolutely not. I’m just going to go this way. And some couples are like, Oh, I kind of like that it takes a village kind of mentality. Right? Where we can just kind of grow with that.

[00:14:35] Dr. Webb-McCune: Or is there? It’s yes and no. And even in each of those categories, would split those up with two of intentional and unintentional. So we have like couples who are monogamous relationships and they genuinely choose it. Right? And that’s actually a question and kind of a therapeutic tool I use a lot of times is whenever couples are coming in monogamous relationships and I’ll be like, well, what if they were dating somebody? Like what would that look like? Actually an an intervention I use a lot is each of them has to create a dating profile for themselves. They don’t actually post it anywhere. We just write it down and it’s a self confidence thing, it’s a self awareness but then also we do some anxiety tolerance with a partner especially if they’re getting close to okay we might do divorce, what does this look like? Hey this is a reality check. Right? This is what it could look like. Now some couples I’d be like

[00:15:26] Dr. McCune: actually I don’t care. Okay well that’s a different conversation.

[00:15:30] Dr. Webb-McCune: Right? Right. But some they’ve thought about it, we’ve discussed it and they’re like at the end of the day, I don’t have any desire. Right? And if my partner does, I mean, we’d have a conversation but I really don’t think I’d be okay with that. The biggest difference of what I look for is the level of anger and anxiety. If there’s a high level of anger or high level of anxiety when we continue talking about it, usually that’s more emotional based than a calm reassurance. Referencing back to what I was talking about before that anxiety response of no we can’t do this versus no like this just doesn’t feel good in my system. Right? For the couples that are in the lifestyle and exploring I see two different. One, it’s a impulsive, they usually have a lot going on. Well, this can fix everything which is a huge no. I work with couples sometimes up to a year to prepare before they get into the lifestyle And then we continue on for a few months afterwards and then check-in periodically as well. And the rate of success we see in those couples is amazing just because we go through everything. We overturn every single thing in their relationship about expectation of sex and money and boundaries. And I tell them what we’re doing is not setting hard and fast rules for the rest of your relationship. What we’re doing is helping you learn questions to ask. Right? How to deal with difficult conversations? How to deal with your own anxiety, and being able to tell the difference in themselves of an anxious response and a steady sure response. The couples that I see it really working for especially if they’re able to go into it pretty seamlessly, They usually had past experiences or exposure where they had to do a lot of anxiety regulation. Usually, them and their partner have already been through difficult things together, maybe not lifestyle, but other things. There’s a high level of security in the relationship and that’s where we see the most set up for success.

[00:17:29] Jackie Melfi: Wow. Looking at John. I’m just thinking because when John and I got together, he had a lot of experience in the lifestyle. I had zero. And so I was hesitant at the beginning just because it was so new and I was trying to take in information and let it really attach and help me through that. But there were a lot of instances where I was definitely treading water and didn’t know the whole thought of like, Oh, I could have talked to somebody before. Because you don’t know what to ask if you don’t know what’s going to be going on. What a great advantage some of these couples have in heading that off at the pass because you’re not going to know. And unless you have a pretty strong personality or you’re not afraid to look at yourself in those instances, can feel like you’ve slammed yourself up against the wall and you’re like, Absolutely not. And then in those instances, it can be really sad because then you miss the side of yourself that you don’t get to explore and possibly learn from and grow through and find out differences. Because we don’t understand so often how deeply ingrained we are in how we were taught. And so because it’s so deep, it just feels like it’s natural. I’m just automatically like this. It’s not I was taught behave this way or to have this thought pattern about how a relationship or a successful relationship is supposed to look like. And then of course society backs that up. If you alter from that, there’s a lot of other things, not just personal experiences that you go through, but the backlash that can come from society, from friends,

[00:19:26] Dr. Webb-McCune: from family.

[00:19:28] Jackie Melfi: Professionally. How

[00:19:32] Dr. Webb-McCune: do you help couples through that as well? It is a risk analysis and I’m never gonna be someone who says you have to be open 110% with everybody. I am. That’s just me and my psyche but that’s also part of my business model cause it’s marketing. Yeah. But there are some couples that we look at and go, they have to have a high level of discretion. I see a lot of people in high levels of political power, business, government workers, and so we have to really look at discretion. We talk about private play parties, how do you reach out to people discreetly, asking for a high level of discretion, all those types of things which is definitely available and you can advocate for anything. Right? As long as it’s kind and you understand that some people are not okay with that. Right? And so I know like for me and one of my boundaries is I’m not okay being like a dirty little secret, right, and hidden. Yeah. And that was something that I had to come to though and process and be like, that’s absolutely okay, right, if you need to but that’s not gonna be good for me and my relationship and my energy. And so it’s just knowing kind of what you need and what the risks are and if you’re willing to take those risks because there’s always gonna be a risk. I have people coming in,

[00:20:44] Dr. McCune: well I just never want anybody

[00:20:45] Dr. Webb-McCune: to know. I’m like, someone might. You never know who you’re gonna walk into. You know, it could be a boss, it could be networking, it could be now if you run into them in like a club then they’re there too. So it’s usually Yeah. There’s usually some things. But like, I’ve had people find them on dating apps. Right? And they have no idea. I’ve had people professionally get that backlash. I’ve gotten backlash being a marriage therapist in a conservative county and being very open. We’ve received a lot of negative feedback in marketing but all marketing is good marketing in my opinion.

[00:21:21] Jackie Melfi: No doubt about it. And talking about that from a professional standpoint, there are so many restrictions to couples that do adopt this more open relationship model. There is from a professional standpoint a lot of issues. There’s these morality clauses with teachers, military things. But from a professional standpoint, is anything other than a traditional relationship model going to cause an issue with these people from a professional standpoint?

[00:21:55] Dr. Webb-McCune: It all depends on who’s in that power of authority. And we can see this. I mean, we used to see it with gay and lesbian relationships and of the oh well that’s immoral. Well no, it’s just a healthy relationship. But it all depends on that person in authority and how much of a power trip honestly they wanna go on.

[00:22:13] Jackie Melfi: And and why do you think we have those in place? Those kind of rules or regulations?

[00:22:20] Dr. Webb-McCune: Honestly, from fear. And I think so much of the stigma against lifestyle is just fear based because to see, well, if you do this, then whatever. Right? Okay. Well there’s boundaries you can set in place there though too. Like what are you actually scared of? Let’s set a protection around that not around the things you think are going to lead to that. Right? They’re making these clauses with a slippery slope logic and it doesn’t it doesn’t make sense. It’s very very subjective. But my belief personally is I think that’s done on purpose because it allows then that person in authority to whatever they decide is moral or not depending on the situation, who it is, what’s convenient for them, what their ultimate goal is long term. So there’s no telling.

[00:23:09]Jackie Melfi: If you had one, two, or three top tips that you could share with our audience on creating that really good, healthy, solid, peace centered relationship with someone else. What what would those be? What would those look like?

[00:23:27] Dr. Webb-McCune: Mhmm. So one of the first things I always tell couples is I want there to be a low level of consistent conflict. And usually I get a what? But what I want is that every single day there should be or almost every day there should be a, hey, that really kind of bugged me. Right? Or do you mind changing that? Nothing to do with lifestyle, nothing to do with sex, nothing just but just being open instead of brushing under the rug. One of the biggest red flags I see in couples is when they come in and two, three weeks later and they’re like, oh, is everything fine? We we didn’t have any tough conversations. I was like, well, know y’all were not perfect for three weeks. So I don’t want any big fights, yes.

[00:24:07] Jackie Melfi: Yeah.

[00:24:08] Dr. Webb-McCune: But I want I want there to be small moments of tension and anxiety almost every day because it’s when we feel that, I’m really nervous to ask ask this to my partner but I know it’s gonna be okay. I know they’re gonna listen. Okay. Let me speak up and then we’re done. Right? Yeah. That is huge. Right? It could be as something as simple as, hey, I know you don’t normally take the kids to school but I really need you to because that was me this morning. Right? Hey, babe, can you take the kids to school? I have the podcast. Want some extra time to get ready. Can you do that? Right? It’s an opening up in vulnerability even though I really had confidence he was gonna say yes but still you never know. You’re opening yourself up for rejection. But instead of just okay fine I gotta do this because I always do this and I’m gonna be frazzled. No. You speak up And in that moment when he says yes and you’re able to have that connection, it brings you closer. And so it’s practicing in your brain psychologically that anxiety spike, self soothing, regulation, tolerance, and then you’re back down. So when you do that again and again and again, then your brain is more used to it when it comes to sex and lifestyle and all these other bigger topics.

[00:25:17] John Melfi: Man, that is so true, isn’t it?

[00:25:19] Dr. McCune: I agree. Yeah.

[00:25:20] Jackie Melfi: Yeah. I mean when you learn how to be an advocate for yourself and it becomes less scary the more you do it and then you kind of have that muscle memory.

[00:25:32] Dr. Webb-McCune: Exactly. That’s exactly what it is, Right? It’s the muscle memory. And so and then with that too, the second tip is looking at that person, being able to advocate. So knowing what you want, what feels good in your body, and this could be sexually, but also just what you wanna eat. Right? There’s the old joke of honey what do you want? I don’t care Mexican, no not that. Right? And we always laugh about it but of course my approach, right, the challenge is hey if you genuinely don’t care and then your spouse says Mexican, well you genuinely didn’t care so Mexican’s fine. If you genuinely had a preference there needs to be a sitting with it moment, well what what do I want? Right? And usually my answer is well I know I don’t want this and this and this. Anything else feels fair game. Right? Right. Because what even in those small moments it’s the same muscle memory. It’s no getting in touch with your body, with your brain, what does sound good for me? What does feel good for me? Because again if we can train our brains in that with food, with schedules, with what I wear, with what music we’re listening to, whatever it is, then we get to train our brains to do that with sex too. I just well, and then speaking of sex Yeah.

[00:26:50] Jackie Melfi: Is there a difference between views of sex in different relationship models?

[00:26:59] Dr. Webb-McCune: Can you elaborate further?

[00:27:00] Jackie Melfi: John and I would be classified as swingers And we have dipped our toe in the poly but I got too much in the way of that. That’s probably a whole other video. So that connection with other people is seen very normal. And almost like my view of my sexuality changed when I changed my relationship model.

[00:27:39] Dr. Webb-McCune: Okay. I see what you’re saying. Yeah.

[00:27:40] Jackie Melfi: Right? Mhmm. So, you know, in in my other because I was married before

[00:27:45] Dr. McCune: Mhmm.

[00:27:46] Jackie Melfi: And in a strictly monogamous relationship. And so if there were issues in that department with our sex life, there wasn’t really or at least I didn’t have the skills or wasn’t able to articulate what do we do in that instance. So now there’s just this thing. But over here with John and I, we have the opportunity to experiment with our sexuality with other people and then it brings us back together and then it gives us more options of things that then we can do and try and really hone in on what we like. It really taught me how that advocate for ourselves to speak up on what I like and what I don’t like and it took away a lot of that self consciousness that I had before because it’s much more out in the open. So I didn’t know, do you see a difference in that?

[00:28:35] Dr. Webb-McCune: Yes. And it’s actually a difference that I encourage even in my monogamous couples though too. Sure. We’re looking at is actually expanding your palette of sexual desires, sexual play, and the purposes of sex. And this is another question I often ask my couples is they say, oh yeah, well we had sex three, four times since we last talked. I was like, okay, was it good? And usually that catches them off guard. Once they get familiar with that question I’ll be like, okay, what type of sex was it? And then usually they’re like, And so I’ve written some articles and stuff like that on it and what we’re looking at is what we find when people just kind of assume like you were talking about before is well sex is this. It’s usually for connection, it feels close, it maybe maintenance sex, right, as you call it and that’s it. Okay. Well that that’s all great. Right? But there’s also fun and exploratory sex. There’s aggressive sex. There’s kinky sex. There’s the super passionate sex. There’s the fun and adventurous and adrenaline sex. And I do a lot of food analogies. Just like with food, right, you we’re not talking about eating the same type the same, like, menu each day, but the same type of food. Sometimes our bodies need really good healthy food because we’re feeling tired, we’re feeling run down. Sometimes we need to splurge, and we feel it. Sometimes we want something and you’re like, that was really good one time. You never wanna do that again. We’re in awe of our Exactly. Exactly. And I do and I love the sex and food analogy because and this is getting a little tangent but it comes back is there’s this conversation about is America oversexed? And I always say well no but we’re not sexed properly because what has happened is growing up there’s this puritanical sex is bad and less this. Right? And then there’s the well no, all the sex all the time and all the ways. K? What actually what we want is the sex that’s good for you and your relationship which just like diet is gonna look different for everybody. Right? Some people and you see it especially now, you see carnivore and keto, you see if it fixed your macros, you see vegan, like it’s whatever it is, right? What feels good within your body because your body chemistry is different from person to person and it changes over time. Yeah. I I know you resonate hard. Right? Yeah. And so sex is the same way in that what we’re looking for is informed intentional sex and I don’t care if it’s monogamous or lifestyle or whatever, even in a monogamous relationship I’m like, okay well have y’all planned like a really fun like adventurous sex soon? Or do you need more, like, the emotional and the sensual? What type of sex do you need? Don’t just check a box. And it going back to that practical tools question, it makes each person speak up in themselves. What do I need? And I find this is really a really really important thing to you in couples within the lifestyle because like, well if they’re having sex with 10 other people, why does sex with me matter? Well, the sex with your spouse is so different because it’s an emotional security, it’s a connection and you can have connections with everyone else but you can’t compare one to the other because it adds in a different quality, it adds in a different intention and there’s nothing that can replace that.

[00:32:03] Jackie Melfi: Well, you bring up such a great point is when you’re having sex with your partner and with it being so different, your spouse, when you’re able to divide yourself away from competition, it really changes that interaction. You really start to understand it. I know I had to go through a process of that. Even unconsciously, you may be doing that and not understanding what’s going on. But when you can really understand that the sex that you have with your partner is the sex that you have with your partner, they’re not going to be able to have that same interaction with anybody else nor are you. And even if they are having it with someone else, it doesn’t degrade what the two of you have.

[00:32:53] Dr. Webb-McCune: They’re having their own connection.

[00:32:54] Jackie Melfi: Their own connection but it doesn’t mean it’s better, it doesn’t mean it’s worse, it’s just it’s different and it’s valuable as well though.

[00:33:01] Dr. Webb-McCune: Yes. Yes. It is. And that’s even within my monogamous couples as long as religiously they agree to it, I encourage masturbation to still kind of normalize that idea of experiencing that sexual pleasure outside of your partner so then you can bring it back of, hey, I was trying this toy and I tried this and I really liked it. Let’s do that. Yeah. Right? And then obviously within the lifestyle, it’s whether their spouse is there or not in the environment being like, let’s try this. Let’s do this. Which is normally a whole another session that we have to process through of what does that bring up, what does that mean and all of that. But I’d rather blatantly talk about it than just the person who’s like, well I just don’t wanna think about it. Right? Those don’t ask don’t tells. Which sometimes I see it work, very rarely. Sometimes it does work though but I’d much rather work with those couples of when we’re facing the anxiety so that way we’re setting ourselves up for success because eventually things come out.

[00:33:58] Jackie Melfi: Yeah and you know the other thing that I want to point out is that as you and I are talking, there’s importance in every single relationship model. We’re not saying one is better than the other or one is more prone to failure than the other. The thing that I really wish more of us could understand is how all of these complement and we can learn from them.

[00:34:23] Dr. Webb-McCune: Absolutely.

[00:34:24]Jackie Melfi: Because I know John and I, we have walked with strictly monogamous couples through maybe issues that they’re having. Because we come at our relationship different, we’re able to offer them avenues or ways to look at whatever difficulty they’re having in a different way. I can think of one in particular that John and I dealt with where this couple were being intimate and he started fantasizing about something and she took huge offense to it. She was like, Oh, he was saying that he likes redheads and I’m not a redhead and so that means he doesn’t like me. I’m like, Well, no, maybe it just means you can go get a red wig.

[00:35:06] Dr. Webb-McCune: Yes, that’s what I was thinking. And try

[00:35:08]Jackie Melfi: it out. And sure enough she did and she was like, It was amazing because it was just a different but I think so often we can make couples or individuals within that relationship feel shame or guilt about something that the other is doing instead of maybe actually using it

[00:35:26] Dr. Webb-McCune: to our advantage. Absolutely.

[00:35:30] Jackie Melfi: How can we try this thing that’s going to maybe open up a new window to something that we didn’t realize?

[00:35:38] Dr. McCune: I’m a big proponent of role play. And not only for monogamous couples especially if they want expand their palette. And then with couples that are talking about having maybe a threesome with another man or another woman, they can get in that role play situation and see how it affects their emotions.

[00:35:55] Dr. Webb-McCune: Yes. Like in the moment. Absolutely.

[00:35:58] Dr. McCune: If it’s something that they end up leaving feeling great about, they had a great time, then maybe they can move forward. If it’s something they have a lot of anxiety about, then maybe they need to talk through it a little bit more before they go to that point.

[00:36:08] Dr. Webb-McCune: Yes. Absolutely. And I’m always the proponent of let’s face whatever’s causing us problems instead of running away. And the we can never do it again, okay, well that’s running away. Maybe you don’t ever do it again, but let’s talk about why. So it’s actually something that I recommend for my couples who are interested in that lifestyle. I recommend your club the most. And so we in that, I tell them I was like, go but don’t play. That’s the rule. I just want you to go and I want you to see what’s your reaction when you see your spouse look at somebody else naked. What’s your reaction if you go see them having sex? Let’s talk through it. Right? And then we do a gradual calculated progression. Cause what I see often is when someone jumps in and plays the first time especially if there’s not all that preparation, it doesn’t mean they’re set up for failure. There’s a whole lot more work to do and it’s very difficult to disentangle the, well, I saw my wife look at someone else for the first time and she had sex with that same person thirty minutes later. Well, that’s a lot to unpack. Right? That’s a lot. Let’s do it one at a time. Right? And so it’s very calculated.

[00:37:11]Jackie Melfi: So is there is there anything that you want to share that I’ve missed

[00:37:18] Dr. Webb-McCune: Mhmm.

[00:37:18] Jackie Melfi: Asking? Or

[00:37:21] Dr. Webb-McCune: I think one of the biggest things that I tell all my couples that I use in my own relationship is at least every single quarter because it’s what we do in business, every single quarter doing a relationship evaluation. And so it’s, hey, how are we doing? And this isn’t just sex, it’s finances, it’s kids, it’s business, it’s long term goals but then also sex and lifestyle and relationship quality. Right? How do you feel close? Do we feel like there’s some distance? Are we kind of putting sex on the back burner? Do we wanna change things up? And what this does is by taking it out of date nights. Right, because I want your date nights to be fun and connecting and close. I want this to be some people make it as formal as a business meeting, right, of I’ll generally do like, hey, let’s do a relationship check-in. We haven’t done it in a while. And it’s the how are we? Right? And I think that’s one of the biggest proponents because touching on what we mentioned earlier, relationships are and should be constantly changing, constantly evolving. And what I would much rather is a couple be able to catch that really early on and then be able to make the adjustments as needed versus oh no it’s fine. It’s fine. It’s fine. And then a year two years later all of a sudden all this is blowing up and it didn’t have to be a blow up. All we had to do was catch this really early.

[00:38:37] Jackie Melfi: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. John, did you have anything that you wanted to ask?

[00:38:42] John Melfi: I wanted to add that it was a fantastic interview. You did a great job and

[00:38:47] Dr. Webb-McCune: Thank you.

[00:38:48] Dr. McCune: You were amazing. Look forward to talking to you some more.

[00:38:51] Dr. Webb-McCune: Thank you. I’m excited.

[00:38:52] Jackie Melfi: Well, and I want you Mhmm. You know, again, you kind of introduced yourself this morning, but how do people get in touch with you? Yeah. I mean, I know we’ll we’ll put all of the links and stuff below in but just let everybody know because I love it.

[00:39:06] Dr. Webb-McCune: No. I’m excited. So we actually have two different ways that we can work with people now. It’s one, the traditional counseling or therapy, and I have, again, a team of counselors that they’re all affirming. We can see virtually anyone within Texas but then also, two locations in Houston. But then with working with so many lifestyle couples, we did start a relationship advisory program and so what that is is it expands beyond therapy. So it’s not for people who are at divorce’s door. But they’re like, hey, I’m really interested in this. I don’t know. Or I’ve been starting to do it, but I kinda want, you know, some success. And so in there, I meet with them every single month and then we actually do live every single week voice messages. Hey, how’d this go? What’d this look like? And so we find that’s really setting couples up for success and I can see anyone within the world there. And so that’s just a way that we can reach out. Natural Balance Counseling is our therapy practice and then Mental Balance Coaching and Consulting is the other one. But I can send you the information so people can find the emails. But I love it. Working within relationships and sex and helping people feel empowered in that is genuinely my passion since the time I was young. Relationships always fascinated me. I love the relationship that I have with my husband that we’ve developed and I just really wish that more people were able to experience that level of fulfillment and self satisfaction.

[00:40:26] John Melfi: Oh, I couldn’t agree more. Thank you everyone for joining us today and we will have information for Dr. Alyssa Webb McCune on the site below And, we look forward to seeing you guys again. Thank you

[00:40:41] Dr. Webb-McCune: so much.