In this deeply personal episode, John shares his unique origin story, exploring the influences that shaped his open-minded approach to relationships and sexuality. From his early years navigating societal norms to his transformative experiences in sobriety and therapy, John reflects on how honesty and personal growth have empowered him to embrace a non-monogamous lifestyle.
Jackie joins the discussion with thoughtful questions, making this episode both insightful and inspiring.
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I’d hook up at the roller rink it was all about hooking up back then so it wasn’t date it wasn’t about dating one person exclusively it was about meeting people yeah all the time somebody different hey guys it’s Johan and Jackie openlove101.com Welcome to our show be sure and click on the Blue Bell if
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you’re watching our YouTube channel you’ll be notified of upcoming videos go to open Lev 101.com sign up for our email list you’ll be notified of events blogs things places we going to be etc etc what we talking about today okay so today we’re going to delve into the life
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of John the life of John we talk like at nauseum I feel like sometimes about me and my upbringing with the you know very religious conservative background that I had and then making my break into the world of non- monogamy and so we talk a lot about that but we really haven’t talked too much
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about you MH so I think today would be a good day to do that in how um and how your upbringing influenced your adult life and your sexuality and you know the one thing that you do say quite often is I’ve been like this ever since I was 18 you know so but it’s like been like what yeah
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probably even before that I mean I was initially raised religiously I me my family was Italian Catholics and uh the first few years of school I was in a Catholic school I just questioned many many things about it and eventually if they weren’t going to kick me out I mean
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it made me I got really ill I was always worried about going to school cuz I got in trouble with my nun all the time for for questioning some of the things that they were teaching us and really wanting to explore more about the solar system in the universe I really in third grade
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I just I really loved science and it just seemed to contradict Sometimes some of the things they were saying and I just questioned it and I would get in trouble for questioning I was really they really you know were hard on me about that and it made me fearful of going and I ended up getting sick and
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all and developing some kind of ulcer in my stomach I end up in the hospital and then my mom uh you know I was finally able to share about my fears and she pulled me out of there and put me in public school at that time so I mean I think I would have gone down the same path regardless
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because I mean I enjoyed school no matter which one it was whether it was a Catholic school or public school but it really just had to do with the the how we were being taught there I had a problem with and um so in you know early on um probably in 7eventh grade I think
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we were you know we had a lot of freedom we lived especially back then for us you know we as kids back then we could roam the streets I’d ride my bicycle a couple of miles to the hills to the dirt Hills and and meet my friends there and I I don’t think our parents back then our
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parents had no idea where we were of us and uh there was um there was a big F across the way from where we lived in wiah and there was a tree like a group of trees and some guy would mow that field and dump the grass clippings in there so it was but it was hidden like
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hidden in these trees and I went in there one time it was like a Hideout and there was a stack of Playboy magazines you know I think that’s the first time I saw a Playboy in Penthouse magazines and you know if if you were not allowed to go outside that wouldn’t happen I mean
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today there’s internet so yeah probably younger age but I don’t think it really had anything to do with my sexuality or my the openness to what happened the the first time I really had um by the way in Catholic school I Kissed A Girl in first grade and I got in so much trouble for that and we wrote
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each other love notes and our Nanny found those and I got in so much trouble for that so I don’t know and I think I was always just kind of a rebel you were writing love notes in first grade yeah like oh you’re so sweet and I like what you had on today and you’re already like a player back in first
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grade H yeah I mean I did I liked girls as far back as I can remember what was it like growing up I mean like what were your your parents like because so you got in trouble in first grade for that but I mean as far as like any kind of teachings where did you have any kind of stigmas about sex
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or relationships or I mean because you just kind of been open a long time and it’s just like I’m trying to figure out like where that openness stems from I mean my mom my mom and dad were divorced by then by by time was in third third grade I don’t remember when it was
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exactly but probably sometime between first and third grade and and then uh my mom was a nightclub singer so we always had someone that stayed with us at night while she was at work and I never really I mean I don’t remember talking about sex with my mom and by time we if we did I already
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knew yeah I don’t know how I knew but I I I knew there was a I think it was probably seventh grade was the first time I played spin the bottle and we found like this secret we had a little Hideway and or it was in some maybe was maybe it may been in our basement and uh you know when you’re
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getting dared to do something so I mean that’s really the first time anything really happened like I remember I lost or it pointed to me and someone told me what to do and I had to go into the closet with this girl for 5 minutes I mean I don’t even think we just like we’re scared to death in
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there like oh what are we going to do um and then we get out and people are asking us did you guys have sex you know I mean and it’s like no I I mean I don’t think I said I don’t think I I don’t think I can’t imagine I would have lied about it but I don’t I definitely didn’t have sex then because
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I remember the first time I did and uh you know so it’s kind of stuff like that it’s just I mean there was a group of us and I didn’t if they were six or eight of us i’ end up kissing all the girls that were there at some point I mean there didn’t seem to be anything wrong
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with it I mean no one got jealous we were just friends so I never really thought about that but it may have started with that I there was never this did all the girls know that you were kissing all of them yeah we did it in front of each other oh interesting oh so then maybe it’s just
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me you never play spin the bottle like that I did play yes I did play spin the bottle in that setting yes okay if you’re talking about spin the bottle then yes I mean that was okay isn’t that funny how if you’re doing it as a game it becomes okay but if you’re just doing
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it outside of a game it can it can mean something different yeah um but you’ve always do you think it’s just because you think it’s because you’re a guy that you have a more relaxed view of your sexuality like you didn’t have to keep track of how often you were having sex
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with somebody or wanting to or no because I think most of my friends in junior high high school and even as a young adult were into uh monogamy they were looking for someone to be with only be with so that was the goal was that your goal ever I ever yes but Young no I never
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thought about it I just I just I mean I remember having a couple girlfriends in high school but they were short-term right one or two days yeah and be like yeah I mean I don’t know why they ended so quickly but they did I never really dated anyone in high school yeah it’s in
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when I was a senior a little bit but even those didn’t last long I didn’t like I see friends that dated the same girl for three years got married and had kids you know and right um I just wasn’t like that I don’t know why I mean I was a I was kind of uh I was smart till I
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started drinking and I was still smart but I quit learning the you think drinking play I mean cuz most people who watch this know that you’ve been sober for at the time of this filming 35 years so you know you’ve you’ve been in that world a long time but do you think that played a role
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at all in your sexuality you mean by when I was in in high school getting drunk yeah oh yeah for sure I mean yeah I mean they definitely you know going to parties or hanging out with people and drinking and you you’re I mean I didn’t have any inhibitions but the girls did maybe they
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got lowered because of the party so I mean I think it definitely affected people making out and having sex and for sure and then you know at that time this is something else I don’t really think happens anymore in America but there was a street in witch talk called Douglas and on Friday and
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Saturday night we would get in our cars or I’d take my motorcycle down there and we would drive up and down how many blocks maybe 10 blocks of it and you would just go back and forth and it was Bumper to Bumper tra or stop and go and youd roll down your windows or say hey
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hey I’ll meet you over here and then you’d go meet new people from other it was all the high schools did it I mean it was such a big deal that we were on like the Nightly News I mean it was dragging Douglas was what it was called I did it one time but I think there were
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people like you that did ITA weekend I mean if I wanted to meet someone to hook up with I would just go down to Douglas I mean when I was 16 years old and 17 years old and then maybe later you know the drinking AG back then was 18 to go to 32 bars 32 beer do they even have 32
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beer anymore I mean probably so I mean we would go to those bars and meet people and hook up and I’d hook up at the roller rink it was all about hooking up back then so it wasn’t date it wasn’t about dating one person exclusively it was about meeting people yeah all the
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time somebody different yeah when I moved away from wiah I move I I was 18 I moved from wiah to Tampa to Tampa Florida and uh I’m going to go back one one second I live with my mom and my stepdad for a short period of time and a buddy of mine and I went out dragging Douglas
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and we met a couple girls and it was late I don’t know 3:00 or 4 in the morning and we decided let’s go have breakfast and so my buddy lived with his like ex stepdad or something like that they weren’t you know he just they really were just friends and so we went to my house and we grabbed
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some things we needed like there was some spices I needed to make some alets I like to make and we grabbed some champagne and uh had a great time I went back home the next day and boy that I get in trouble cuz my dad said I took one of his really expensive bottles of
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champagne I didn’t I I I really remember taking one of the cheaper ones but I don’t know who knows they told me I wasn’t allowed to bring girls over to the house anymore I was like well then I’ll just move out so I moved out so that was it that say that very day sex and girls and hanging
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out with girls I mean it was a big part of my life early on H yeah I would to where I would make a decision like I’m going to get a job and pay my own rent anyway I moved I moved to Tampa when I was like 18 and my first night there I had a threesome with two girls I mean it just
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it really has just been that way all my all my life now I did have long longer term relationships where I was just with one person when I was drinking I say one person it appeared as I was one person but I was I wasn’t being faithful right um once I got sober I was faithful to whoever I
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was with but early on that wasn’t necessarily the case so did getting sober change your how you were sexually or were you still so in uh NAA we do what’s called a sex inventory and we kind of Define how we’re going to be as as a sober person yeah and I didn’t want to hurt anybody
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and there were probably times I didn’t want to manipulate and there were probably there were times in drinking where I did those things and so that’s really what changed I was going to be more honest not more definitely more but I was going to be honest in in what I wanted about who I
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was I wasn’t going to try and manipulate if somebody didn’t want to do anything or I wasn’t going to say oh my God you’re just I can just feel it you’re the love of my life you know and not really feel that way so that definitely changed me in that way it didn’t um it didn’t
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change me from the fact that I love sex and being with girls but the way I went about it was different in my first year s right I didn’t go out with anybody and then I had a girlfriend that was also in AA we dated for probably I don’t remember exactly but at Le at least a year and
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lived together and that was really my first long-term honest relationship and it was strictly monogamous um but over the years I had some girlfriends that were it wasn’t so much they definitely weren’t monogamous because they were cheating on me so uh I think that kind of molded
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me into who I am today and being more accepting of the fact that women like to have multiple sex partners as well I I you know I was kind of taught was always the guys yeah but you know my experience with some of the girls I dated it was them too and they and there was a point
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once I got into the nightclub business and the Swing Club business where I would offer that you know let’s we can have an open relationship or be swingers and some of the some of these girlfriends wouldn’t do that but they would cheat right and uh I never understood that other than maybe
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they they would be too jealous with me doing doing that as well so they they found there could be other things going on with that you know those girls weren’t necessarily sober so maybe alcohol played a role interesting but really you would say the core of who you are has been
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consistent yeah I the the thing that changed most dramatically is my the level of honesty I have yeah and that wasn’t the case when I was drinking for sure is there anything else that you think would be important for us to know about you I I mean I think the you know the
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times where somebody would cheat on me uh early the first times it happened it was really hard it hurt and I um I think it does for anybody and I really started to Define like accept that this is how relationships are going to be I don’t want to be hurt like this I mean it was
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really painful and so I you know I went to mult different therapists till I found one that really worked for me and and had me doing the work to change who I was and and really established boundaries for myself I don’t think I really had the boundaries I wasn’t it’s
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not a discussion I ever had with anyone you know as as when I was young and I didn’t really know how to deal with it so would you say having boundaries made your sex life better well not my sex life but my relationships your relationships yes so now if someone crosses if if if I have a boundary like
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that which is really about honesty with your partner and being faithful and um if that gets crossed I would move on you know I just I don’t want to be with someone like that that’s going to be dishonest with me right and and I want to I want to give the same I think it’s a it’s it’s
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mutual and the to be able to do that to be able to really see like why I was accepting of of that why why I would accept someone cheating on me and stay with that person and let it happen over and over and over again and keep getting hurt I think the therapy really helped
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me to understand why I would allow that to happen to me I mean not that it was happening to me but why I would allow it right uh today I don’t I don’t I don’t do that so much I mean maybe from time to time I I I might let someone Bounder with me and but I really put my foot
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down today and I let people know who I am and this is an acceptable behavior for me if you want to be a part of my life and that’s a big that’s a big difference that has given me confidence self-confidence more self-esteem um because you know when that’s happening to you you really feel
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like less than like because you do feel like it’s being done to you in the moment like why I’m not providing what am I not providing this person so they would seek someone else out for attention and you would blame yourself for it yeah and and that was part of why
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I would stay in those relationships cuz maybe I need to change so they’ll stop doing this yeah oh it’s hor it’s a horrible feeling anyone going through that I mean if it hadn’t been for the for a therapist you know I don’t I don’t know that I would be where I am today with
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you and those experiences help prepare me for the relationship that you and I have I don’t think we would have the relationship we have if it weren’t for the stuff that I had had to go through yeah and so that’s another key thing to remember is we’re going through stuff
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that’s really painful sometimes it’s so hard we don’t know how we’re going to get to the other side of it but once I have and you know once you do get to the other side of it you know you can begin to see how it benefited you in some way and that’s what life’s all about it’s
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it’s about experiencing things no matter if if it feels good or bad or right or wrong experiencing getting through it learning about it and then using whatever you learned in in your next relationship to other so would you say that since you’ve grown through that and
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you’ve gone through the steps and you did that inner work would you say that now your interactions with people um how is it different than it was before you did that work you know like for you with like with with other play Partners or other people other sexual uh interludes that you have
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with people would you say like how has it benefited you well from before to today I think mostly it’s benefiting when in this in relationships but how does it benefit you in in that I mean do you do you feel more secure in those interactions now because you have more self-esteem have
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your boundaries yeah yeah I thought I really said that but yeah definitely makes me feel more secure in my relationship with my relationship with others I’ve made decisions there have been times I’ve decided not to be with that person because I felt as though maybe they weren’t being honest
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with me about what they were looking for and there was a time where I would say well yeah I don’t think this person is really being clear you know she says she doesn’t want to have children but I think she probably really does but she’s telling me she doesn’t so I’m going to
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go for it anyway you know today I wouldn’t I I would really go with my gut more yeah and I used to not do that I would just be selfish it would be 100% selfish motivation to be with that person so that’s changed well this has been this has been interesting I think
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you’ve brought to light a lot of good points about growth and personal responsibility and you know taking ownership of your own sexuality and you know being responsible and then by doing that how it’s created uh more abundance for you in sexual relationships that you’ve had since the
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growth right and you know being able to have those interactions with people that are going to benefit both of you you know because you’re being honest uh you’re you’re with people that you require honesty from and so you know that bonding opportunity um that friendship opportunity is much more
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available because um you know it’s it’s something that you’re choosing to do and something that you’re taking ownership of so I think those are all important aspects of of you know whether you’re in a monogamous relationship or a non- monogamous relationship the core of of
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who you are and how that emanates out is is really important so I appreciate you sharing your path with us and another you know to to finally another interesting thing I find in it if if if I were a science experiment and not having the um the societal Norms really forced upon me or
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to or at any time I don’t believe anyone ever told me that’s what the goal is I mean you see it with your I didn’t see it with my mom you know I didn’t see it with my parents I saw something I saw divorce early on yeah so I was just left to my own and how it turned out is I was a
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very sexual person and so like today when we talk about being in the lifestyle or open relationships it just you know I’ve shared before how I think it’s natural and I think I’m a you know my history is really kind of shows that it is if you’re just left to your own and you
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don’t have these really defined rules about how to have a relationship it probably will be a relationship that’s just more open like that so food for thought for sure well thanks Jackie for asking me these great questions thanks for joining us be sure to sign up for our email list
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at openlove101.com and we can update you about this blog and events that Jackie and I have going on and many more also we have a private Community called open love 101 plus it’s a membership only community and Jack and I do more one-on ones there we have coffee time once a
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week and some behind the scenes things that you can be privy to so go to our website at open Lev 101.com click on open Lev 101 plus and check that out all right thanks for joining us see see you
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